When is an answer not an answer?

Question

Recently a question was asked about if it was acceptable to ask a mother on a bus to control her overly-talkative daughter, and if so, how to do so.

A highly-voted answer was flagged as "not an answer".

Technically, I agree that it is not directly answering the OP's question, so I think this is a helpful flag. Someone else commented that it wasn't an answer, and I up-voted that. This is not an issue where I thought the flag was not appropriate; my personal feeling is that the community should feel free to flag early and flag often, as that is a form of community moderation of the site, which is always a good thing.

My question has to do with when an answer only has an implied, therefore indirect answer (even if it is clearly implied): "(It's not acceptable.) This is your problem..."

I'd like to know what your opinion is about how this kind of answer should be handled. If the user had been more wordy and less abrupt, would it still not be an answer?

I have to disclose that I have a dog in this race: my answer before the "Oops!" edit was essentially no different than the answer under discussion, it was only wordier. If I remove the controversial answer, really, the same logic applies to my own answer, which I am perfectly willing to remove for the same reasons (in fact, it's part of the reason I asked this meta question.)

There are also other views to consider: low quality answer, arguing with the premise, rude or offensive (or a custom flag), etc.

Answer 1

I don't know if I have an answer for all answers, but I could address this one. In has several issues to it that immediately make me feel like it's not a complete offering, and doesn't have enough to be an answer..

1. It doesn't address the stated problem, and gives only a cursory solution. I think the answer here: What should we advise when one disagrees with the premise of a question?

   Most importantly, it is never appropriate to post an answer that does not directly answer the question asked.

   I suppose you could say there's an implied answer that they don't approach the parents, but I don't think SE is designed for implied answers.

2. It feels suited for a comment. The portion that suggests an alternative assumes the OP isn't already an expert in handling their sensitivity issues. We also see in comments on OP people suggesting headphones/distractions and asking if the OP has tried them. Instead of probing for further information as those comments do, it simply says "This is the solution".

3. It fits completely within the comment character length. Short answers are fine, but if they're not actually more constructive than a comment, or any longer, then they should probably be a comment. (I'm not saying to put answers as comments. But if no one would bat an eye with it being in the comments, then it's probably a comment.)

4. They have no sources or citations, or even personal anecdotal evidence. Nothing builds this up to a credible objective or subjective answer. We're left merely with a strong opinion worded in a possibly inflammatory way.

   the problem is yours and yours alone

5. It would in no way help me if I were in a similar situation, without the diagnosis. I don't carry earbuds or headphones everywhere. It's not always possible to whip out gadgets to solve your problems. So, if I get into a situation where I'm in a small, enclosed space with children that are incidentally aggravating me, and I've already decided to approach their parents for some relief, then this answer gives me no guidance on that front. (Personally, I can relate to the noise sensitivity directly: I occasionally get severe migraines that make any noise at all unbearable. If I have a migraine, the last things I would want to do are: Put headphones on my head or earbuds in my ears, as the pressure is unbearable, or stare at an electronic screen as my photosensitivity would make that also unbearable.)

   You can contrast this with other answers that tell the OP that approaching the parents isn't likely to be effective (2 by my count, as of now). They explain why it may not get the results they what, or any results at all, and offer a social context for when it is okay to approach someone about such noise issues.

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After going over that, I would say an answer needs:

1. To address the stated problem, or provide clear, supported reasoning as to why it's not the real problem. That's supported here: Is "Don't do it" a valid answer?

I think it's a valid answer, provided that you explain why the OP shouldn't do it (which you did in the question you gave as an example). But I would consider also to answer the actual question, too. As in "Don't do it because of A, B and C. But if you decide to do it anyway, I would follow this approach:..."

I have recieved one or two Don't do it answers on my questions, and I find it very helpful to question my own decisions on how to approach a problem. (It also bruises my ego a tiny bit, but that is outweighted by the benefits).

It has a comment reply that's highly upvoted that says:

agree, it is OK as long as you explain why in a well reasoned way with at least one web citation to back up your position

2. Provide evidence, expert knowledge or closely-related personal experience that supports the given solution as an answer.

   I don't think we always need "web citations" for our stack, but I agree that we need well-reasoned explanations with something to back them up.

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If the user had been more wordy and less abrupt, would it still not be an answer?

I don't think their wordiness is the issue. I just don't think they've provided anything in any way useful to somebody looking for help on this particular problem.

I don't think it would take much to improve it. Even some social context would have elevated this from comment material, in my opinion. If they framed it from the standpoint that their society/culture would generally expect you to just deal with it, then they could have been providing "expert" advice as a lifelong member of said society/culture. Instead, it's just comes across as their own one-off opinion. Such a sentence would not add to the wordiness, nor necessarily reduce the abruptness, but it would at least justify it being an answer.

Answer 2

I was the source of the upvoted comment, I suspect, and want to clarify my particular stance on that answer, as well as in general.

On that answer, I didn't feel it was "not an answer" explicitly. I didn't flag it, and didn't even downvote it. I think it is a poor answer, and would be better as a comment, because of the lack of providing additional details. Saying "No" but not giving the OP any additional details I don't find very helpful, and hence my suggestions. I didn't intend to suggest it was "Not An Answer", or even a "bad" answer - just not a very good one, because it was too black/white.

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As to the question of "When is an answer not an answer", I tend to hold a fairly hard line on the NAA flag. NAA flag should be only for "answers" that literally are not an answer for me. Things that are clearly intended as comments, questions, follow ups, "me too"s. Anything that is an answer to any question is an answer in my book, technically. That's the Stack Exchange model and what I stand by. Not An Answer doesn't mean it is a poor answer or doesn't fully answer the question; it means it's not an attempt at an answer.

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As to "what should we do with answers like this", this is probably not the best answer/question to use as a model. The question, as Adam noted, did ask whether this was appropriate - so in that sense this did not explicitly disagree with the premise of the question. It could've been more polite, and certainly should have been more detailed in one way or another, but it didn't argue with the premise in my opinion.

On the general question of "what do we do with answers that argue with the premise", we should comment on them and downvote them. Flagging isn't appropriate, as there isn't anything a moderator can or should do that a non-moderator does. Answers that argue with the premise of the question are poor answers, and downvoting is what you do with poor answers.

The only caveat to that for me is that on questions like this, voting from the community can easily be countered by large numbers of voters from other areas (when it's a 'hot topic'). I think that can be unfortunate, but I think it also doesn't change my opinion - as long as the answer doesn't violate the Be Nice policy, if it argues with the premise it should be downvoted but not otherwise acted on by a moderator.

Answer 3

That answer rejects the premise of the question - which is already user hostile and should probably be avoided.

But, worse, it is rude and dismissive.

It's not an answer and should be deleted.

Answer 4

My biggest concern with deleting such answers on a site like this is the power that gives question askers to prevent answers they don't like from appearing on questions.

For instance, consider the following question:

My 8 year old arrives home from school about 45 minutes before I get home, and will be alone during that time. While this is legal in my location, I want to avoid nosy neighbors and passers-by from causing problems, and I want to make sure my child knows what to say to anyone, such as the police, who attempt to make contact with her.

What should my child say and do to avoid negative interactions with people, or authorities?

Note that the question isn't about whether leaving a young child home alone is a good parenting practice, however it's reasonable for child care experts to weigh in on the unasked issue.

As a community of parenting experts, we should not shy away from answers that provide a solution, even if that solution is a little further from their question than they intended. If it is a possible resolution to the problem, then it should be welcomed as a reasonable option among a diverse selection of solutions to a problem.

If we choose to delete opposing answers merely because they don't answer the question the way the asker desired, then we not only give the question asker significant power to define the discussion, but that incomplete discussion remains on the site for future visitors as though it were complete, expert advice.

We already have parents here with very strong opinions on various aspects of parenting. Some will use this power to direct the conversation and push their views, flagging answers they don't like for deletion because they don't like them - not because they aren't useful solutions to the question.

Lastly, tying the hands of those volunteering their time answering questions, and preventing them from providing contrary answers may be a good short term strategy to encourage question askers, but isn't a good long term strategy for keeping good answerers around.

The answer under discussion is nice because it really is right on the edge, and has provoked a great discussion. However, I'd really suggest we avoid making such a sweeping policy based on this example alone - I'd like to see examples of other answers where this is a problem, showing that a policy change is needed.

Answer 5

This is hardly a new issue. My own opinion is that when someone asks, "How do I do X?" Sometimes the best answer truly is, "Don't do X."

In this case, the answer provided is most certainly a valid answer. It might not be one some agree with - they should downvote it - but it 1) indicates that the OP shouldn't do what they are asking to do, 2) indicates why the OP shouldn't do it, and 3) provides alternatives. It is brief, which some don't appreciate, but it is clearly an answer to the question asked and should remain an answer.

Below is a quick summary of the reasons a "don't do it" answer is an acceptable answer, followed by quotes from previous discussions of this issue.

Reasons why Don't Do It is a valid answer

• Voting will generally correctly adjust the visibility of such answers
• The OP still gets to choose the "accepted answer" and thus which one is on top and/or marked as most useful
• It helps the questioner consider their problem more carefully
• It helps highlight questionable practices and gives others the opportunity to not just vote them up, but also vote them down when wrong (comments can't be voted down, so they are not a good place for "Don't do that" answers)
• Helping the person in need is good, but others will come along later with similar questions that aren't exactly the same and having a comprehensive answer section with a lot of answers, including "don't do that", will not only help the OP, but future visitors. Remember, this is a repository for knowledge and expertise, not just a help forum. Many different points of view are welcome and desired, not just for the OP, but for everyone.
• "Not an answer" flags should be used for answers which pose a question for the op (ie, comment), or not in any way related to the question, not for answers the OP might not want to see, or others disagree with - the OP and others have voting and accepting votes that will take care of all other kinds of answers

What do we do when a popular answer doesn't seem to directly address the question?

I feel that ... the answer should stay. Typically, voting will correctly adjust visibility of the answer up/down appropriately. The answerer was attempting to answer the question - they were trying to adjust the point of view to show that perhaps the parent was approaching the issue in the wrong way, which is a perfectly valid outlook even if it doesn't solve the question as asked. Evidence (votes) suggests that such an adjustment of viewpoint is a popular opinion on the topic, even if many voters aren't from our (honestly, fairly small) community of active users.

In the end, if the OP decides a different answer is 'better' (which, for all we know, they may not. Perhaps the given answer is eye-opening and does change the OP's mind of how to approach the situation), then they'll mark a different answer as correct. Once they do so, the marked answer will jump to the top regardless of votes. Future readers will see the selected answer first, but if they choose to continue reading they'll see the alternative viewpoint as is always the case.

All in all, the "Not an answer" flag should be used for "answers" that truly don't even attempt to answer the question - they either are spam, pose a question for the OP (should be a comment), or are completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

Is “Don't do it” a valid answer?

I think it's a valid answer, provided that you explain why the OP shouldn't do it (which you did in the question you gave as an example). But I would consider also to answer the actual question, too. As in "Don't do it because of A, B and C. But if you decide to do it anyway, I would follow this approach:..."

I have recieved one or two Don't do it answers on my questions, and I find it very helpful to question my own decisions on how to approach a problem. (It also bruises my ego a tiny bit, but that is outweighted by the benefits).

How to handle questions where “don't do that” is the answer

I think it often is appropriate; I see examples of this all the time. The O.P. may not accept the answer, but other folks very well may vote it up. If it gets voted down, well, then people don't agree with you. But it's worth a try. And someone else who is closer to being on the fence may search, find your answer, and think twice about implementing the questionable practice.

Remember that StackExchange is supposed to be a living repository of questions and good answers. It's actually not all about helping the person who posts the question; it's about helping anybody who ever reads your answer.

Answering a Question Vs. Solving a Problem

In other words, you're wondering if "Don't do it" is a valid answer?

Yes, it can be. Depends on how you approach it. If you explain why it's a bad approach, or how there's a better way, that's perfectly okay.

What to do when an “answer” does not really answer anything?

...what about other people's negative answers? How should we react to them? Well, there are good negative answers and there are bad ones. Bad ones disrespect the asker or the asker's point-of-view, don't justify their answer, or attempt to ram what is an opinion down the asker's throat.

If it's not an answer at all or abusive, then flag it. If the answer is terse and holier-than-thou, then maybe downvote it. If it's negative answer but one that might help the asker, then it's candidate for upvoting. Reinforcement from votes can help the asker come to accept the "bad news" about their current approach. In any case, as long as it is an answer, then judge the answer based on its merits like you would an answer in the positive.

Is 'don't do this' a valid answer to a question looking for input on how to do something?

Yes, if it's a good answer in its own right. It needs to include actual expertise or research or facts saying why not to do something, and ideally suggest an alternative.

Sometimes, askers say what they're trying to do and what they're stuck on, then an answerer tells them to try an entirely different approach. I would view a good "don't do this" answer as in this class of answers.

I'll also note that sometimes these answers can be blunt and snarky. I don't think that's constructive - the OP didn't really learn anything besides the fact that at least one person on the internet thinks she didn't do that, which she probably knew before posting a question. These should be constructively downvoted, with a comment explaining that this could be a good answer if it were educational instead of curt.

On answering the actual question

Should we not give questioners the benefit of the doubt

NO! At least, not always. ...I at least am not going to let an obvious ... issue go unchallenged.

Now, I recognize that not all instances of this issue rise to the level of security problems. For less severe problems it might be better to just let it slide. But even here, I feel that even if the OP knows what they're doing, someone else who reads the question later might not, and it's important to have a well-voted post with the question mentioning that something may not be appropriate most of the time.